Libertarians Abandon Free Market Democracy in Favor of Despotism and other stuff that is completely hypocritical.

I very recently had the following conversation on Facebook with a couple of people who are staunch libertarians.  For years, I have heard that true democracy is evil because the majority will do what ever makes sense for them at the peril of the minority.  But I want to know, when has this happened?  I know the rhetoric by heart, but where’s the evidence?

If you can answer the question, I really want to hear it, and I’m not just trying to prove a point, I really want to know!  I can’t find a single case.  Everything I find shows the most evil despotic regimes and rulers coming to power through some sort of uprising or coup.

I’ve replaced the names with descriptions if you couldn’t tell.

______________________________________________

Host Republic vs. Democracy. I still want to know how laws are created in a Republic. Majority rule? Minority rule? Common sense? WHO gets to make the decision what laws are created? If it's rule by the people, it's Democracy. But Democracy turns into an evil force of plunder and oppression. What are your thoughts on this?

[YouTube video link which didn’t come through.]

Our system of government was never intended to be a democracy. Although many believe that we live in one, they have never been asked to vote on the decisions made by said government. Yet they believe that they are empowered just the same. We are not.

[At this point, there are a couple of posts that have been deleted.  I asked if someone (I knew there are always libertarians lurking around) could give me an example of a democracy that turned evil like they often talk about.  The Host made a sarcastic comment to the effect that the USA was such a country.]

Me I was looking for was an answer. Do you have one? Sarcasm about a country that is by your own account not a democracy does not count.

Host Ok, Rome fell when it morphed from a Republic to a Democracy.

Host And, you're missing the point of my post.

Me Rome fell when it went from a democracy to a monarchy. And you're not answering the question adequately.

Other Guy The point is that the will of the majority is not always just. There has to be a check against that power to protect the individual. IN our system, that is the constitution and the judiciary. No system is perfect however. Our constitution was as close as it comes in my opinion. Unfrotunately it's completely ignored most of the time.

Other Guy When the ballot box fails, there is always the bullet box.

[Notice here, the immediate abandonment of democracy and straight to bullying and violence when not in the position of power]

Other Guy Case in point, slavery (as pointed out by Host). The ballot box wasn't an option. The bullet box solved the problem.

[Actually, if you read history, the “bullet box” in this case was first checked by what we now understand (in many contexts) as the losing side.]

Me Show me the evil democracy you guys always tell me about.

Other Guy Do you read anything anyone writes?

Me The name of a country please.

Other Guy Naaaa, I'm not wasting my time. I was planning to get drug naked through a parking lot full of ground glass into a pond filled with alcohol. I wouldn't miss that just to argue with you.

[And that was the first inclination of when I knew I would never get an answer because the other side was in a losing argument and was not going down with any honor.]

Me I'm not arguing, I'm asking a question about a point I hear all the time and getting no answer.

Other Guy You've got plenty of answers, you just ignore them.

Host I want to know what's the difference between a Democracy and a Republic REALLY. A Republic is "rule by law"- but whose law? Who decides. I believe I said that in the original post. This is a "working out an internal conflict" post.

Me

If you'd like to give me an answer to the question I actually asked, I'd be happy to consider it thoughtfully.

"But Democracy turns into an evil force of plunder and oppression." This was part of the post. I would just like to see a legitimate example of this statement.

Host In a 56 word post, you are obsessed with these 11. 9 sentences, 5 of which were questions. Thanks for reading the whole context and sticking with it.

Me I would be happy to consider your questions if I could just have a little clarification on your statement. The answer to my question will necessarily father the answer to your question.

Other Guy Clarification: democracy is mob rule. What do you not understand?

Host What if it was a repetition of what I hear others say in an attempt to challenge them to answer MY FRIGGIN' questions in their responses?

Other Guy Hey I will say something for WiredForStereo. AT least he hasn't called us racist yet.

[I’m not sure exactly to what this is referring.]

Me What I mean is, there are over 190 countries on earth. What I'm asking is, which one of these fits your definition of the evil of democracy? And if there is not one in existence now, which one in the past typifies your statement?

Host ‎23 comments. 23 comments and still no feedback on a deeply troubling question. If I'd asked for proof that Jesus was the son of God because I just don't get it, I probably would have been able to get THAT question answered.

Me I give you my word that I will comment on your question as soon as I get the clarification I'm looking for.

As for Jesus, what sort of proof would be acceptable to you?

[This is an important question.  What kind of proof would be accepted by people who won't even answer a question that exposes the fundamental absurdity of their position?]

Host What if it was a repetition of what I hear others say in an attempt to challenge them to answer MY FRIGGIN' questions in their responses? I swear I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

Me You know...so do I. I would absolutely love to answer your question, and believe me, it's a subject I am dying to weigh in on as soon as some one will give me an example of the statement in the post.

Other Guy You are talking to a wall Host. It's cheap entertainment. Remember the eternal wisdom of Thomas Jefferson, "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions".

[An interesting point, but the unintelligible proposition is one that here cannot, no, will not be backed up by any sort of evidence.]

Me Show me some ridicule, some name calling, some sarcasm, anything. I'm asking a question and no one will answer it.

Second Guy Evil democracy - Haiti... Pre-WWI Germany... Pakistan... Iran... United Nations (quasi-democracy)... Lebanon... China. FUTURE evil democracies - Iraq... Afghanistan.

[Finally, after hours, someone actually tries to give some evidence.]

Host Let me get this straight. I ask 5 questions, and you ask 1 in response to my 5. Then, you refuse to answer any of my 5 until I answer your one. Your one question, which I've said, not once, but twice, was a half way sarcastic remark to get people to think before they answer my 5 questions and not necessarily a direct position statement.

Other Guy Don't get your hopes up Second Guy. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. LOL

Me

I completely disagree Host. Every question I've asked has been completely serious.

Second Guy, excellent post, I'll get back to you, but off hand I know that Iraq, China, Iran, and Afghanistan are republics. The UN is not a country and as we all know is relatively impotent, but I will research and get back to you in a few minutes.

Host You really DO refuse to read anything I've written tonight, don't you? Where did I say what YOU'VE written wasn't serious?

Second Guy ‎"The People's Republic of China" is as much a republic as "The People's Republic of North Korea." You can call a turd a rose, but it's still a turd.

Me The Republic of Haiti, The Weimar Republic, The Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Lebanon, all republics. You'll remember that Hitler was placed in power by the previous old guy and not voted in per se.

Second Guy As much as I would love to continue this banter.I have a long drive to our LPAR BBQ tomorrow at Mt. Nebo. See you there Host. Wish you were coming, Jason. If you change your mind, we will be there all day and night tomorrow, leaving out Sunday,

Me I define sarcasm as not being serious, at least in part. I've not been sarcastic.

Me I'm asking a question, and Second Guy was the only one who even bothered to try to answer it.

Host I see. You're superior to me. And your questions mean much more on this earth than mine do. That's rather misogynistic, don't you think?

[And now it’s personal.  This is the sum total of the devolution of discussion and debate.  The name calling begins, but I won’t have any of it.]

Me I don't have any idea what you’re talking about, and I'm not going to start tossing around five syllable insults. I told you Host, I'm not going to be doing that any more. If you don't want to answer, then don't. If you do, then do. Don't stoop to that level. I'm not going to be doing it either.

A TeaParty Person

Host. America is a "Democratic Republic". This means that we elect representatives (that's the domocratic part) who in turn represents us in running the government (Republic). The Founders set it up that way because at that time, they believed that few citizens truly understood how to run a government but felt strongly that "The People" had to be able to particpate in their government. America is NOT a democracy as it is classically defined. There has been no true democracy that survived throughout history and a total republic is very close to a socialistic society. By combining both types of government - something that had never been done before - the Founders basically invented a new type of government. Ultimately, this form of government became the greatest society the world has ever seen.

We must protect our government as defined in our Constitution. Allowing ANYONE to "fundamentally change America" is criminal and falls outside the US Constitution. We hope this helps.See More

A Girl

I agree that our founding fathers were inspired in creating the Constitution. I'm not sure what they set up is a simple republic. As I understand it the difference between a democracy and a republic is that the people select leaders to make the laws rather than make laws directly (well, referendums seem to circumvent this a bit).

And I think originally it was another degree separated (I'm not a political history buff). The people voted to select electors who then used their judgment to select the people they considered best suited. Public popularity votes were optional early on, though, I think they somehow crippled the electors so that they had to vote the way public vote at some point. Not sure if that's good or bad, but it does take a lot of power away from that level of decision making.

So, to get back to your original question... ...the laws are made not by 'the people' but by an ever changing group of people who 'the people' have vested their trust in.

So what does this do to the laws then? Well, this group of people is selected from the pool of 'the people' and have a lot of the various flaws and good points. So sort of the laws might be said to be 'of the people' though not quite of the majority nor really of any minority either. It's really 'of this group of individuals,' so it'd be a oligarchy if the group didn't change up. With a lot of leaders taking direction (as least that's what they claim) from what they feel the people who voted for them would choose, it shifts the decision process closer to a democracy. Theoretically the leaders of a republic should be using their best judgment to choose the best route (most moral, even handed, etc) whether the people who voted for them would agree or not.

The flaw of democracy is that it's unstable. Our self serving inclinations get out of hand and we start choosing only those things with personal short term benefits, despite the cost to the future or to non-majority groups. I think the republic set up is intended to put a bit of distance there so that the government would respond to the ideals of the time, hopefully to the best ideals, and yet exert enough 'self control' that, as a nation, we could make ourselves take the harder path with better long term outlook. To swallow the bitter medicine if the nation got sick. ...I wish I could be more certain that this is how the current administration functions...

Oh, and can't you delete notes from other people on your own page? I hope so. Deleting off topic comments is valid moderation technique. It's not like the comments can't be written on their own wall if they want to discuss something else.

*Which I agree with as well. I think it takes a fair bit of education and/or natural aptitude for that level of management and tracing side effects laws. I'm not sure that all of our current leaders are qualified. The 'lets vote yes on this so we can find out what's in it' comment boggles my mind. But I sure wouldn't want running the country put in my personal hands. Even if I could manage not to be the puppet of more experienced people, I'd still wreak havoc with inexperience.

[Now here’s something, but despite the continual tirade against democracy, there’s still no evidence offered as to an example of how democracy is evil.  We all know why, the reasons, the justifications, but where’s proof?]

A TeaParty Person Girl. You gave an excellent description. I guess the future generation of leaders is not yet a lost cause. Thanks.

A Girl Oh silly me. I deleted the sentence that needed the foot note. Oops. It was in reference to the comment on whether the founding fathers didn't trust just everyone to know how to run a country.

Me

‎"The flaw of democracy is that it's unstable. Our self serving inclinations get out of hand and we start choosing only those things with personal short term benefits, despite the cost to the future or to non-majority groups."

I'd like to see an example of this.

 A Girl D.a., that does sound interesting. If I get enough mental space to give it some attention could I ask for a similar synopsis?

A Girl Oh, no worries and thanks Red. I'd assumed it would just be too long to fit in a comment. Which is also why I'll need to find a moment and block out some mental space to digest such a synopsis. Otherwise I'd just skim it and probably end up confused.

Host Thanks Girl, Red, and whichever fine lady from TeaParty helped shed some light on the original questions.

Me But my question remains in the dark.

[]And that was the end of it.  I realize not all of this is pertinent to the thesis, but I had to post all of the convo because in case someone finds this and identifies themselves (it happened with Laurie Masterson recently even though the internet visitor who claims to be Laurie was on a computer located in the wrong city).  I want there to be complete transparency, well except for the names.  I don’t want to take anyone out of context.  I don’t know who deleted the first couple of posts, but it wasn’t me.

The point here is that from what I’ve seen, democracy is getting further and further from a primary goal of our society as constructed by libertarians and republicans and conservatives, and it’s being done naturally by the people who would take control at gunpoint if they can’t figure out how to get a majority in an election.  They consistently talk about the tyranny of the majority while logically pushing a tyranny of a minority.  It just all depends on where you are and if your side has more votes.  Remember when Bush II got caught with his pants down in Iraq when there turned out to be no WMD’s and suddenly, our mission was to bring democracy to Iraq?  Yeah, that’s sick.

We can never allow a movement to take power that believes it should be in power even if most people won’t vote for it. 

The constitution is there to maintain the equitable distribution of protection to the minority, not give it power to rule.

Furthermore, because I need to interject Jesus into everything, I need to point out that Jesus never ever advocated taking power by force, no matter the circumstances, and given the chance to do just that at the highest point in his popularity, he refused.  I mention Jesus often in these types of posts because conservatives (not the libertarians in this post specifically) are most often Christians.  And yet, despite what the man they believe is their God said, they are the ones hinting at a second civil war.  They like to call it a second American Revolution, but anyone who has the ability to think about it will realize quite quickly that it’s a civil war. 

We really didn’t do well in the last civil war, we lost.

WiredForStereo

Politics Here in Arkansas

Came across this on Facebook. Just a taste of the craziness we have to deal with in this country.

Sorry about the formatting, you should be able to figure it out.


Laurie Lee Masterson
Laurie Lee Masterson **AND THIS?** ## Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis. ## Discredit the American founding fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man”.
Yesterday at 7:14pm
2 people like this.
Donna Epperson
Donna Epperson
Laurie Lee, this is what amazes me the most about this bum of a president. I just absolutely do not think this election was on the up and up. This was known before he was elected. I just don't get it, I just don't.
Yesterday at 7:21pm
Julia Foreman
Julia Foreman
How does another failure in passing a jobs bill play into "the plan"?
Yesterday at 7:25pm
Donna Epperson
Donna Epperson
More people dependent on the government through food stamps etc and government food banks, medicaid, medicare and what ever else the government chooses to "give them"
Yesterday at 7:27pm
Jon Cross
Jon Cross
OBAMA IS DOING MORE HARM TO THIS COUNTRY THAN OSAMA DID!! WHO IS THE GREATER THREAT??
Yesterday at 7:28pm
Donna Epperson
Donna Epperson
Osama/Obama as far as I'm concerned they are one in the same!
Yesterday at 7:30pm
Gary Munson
Gary Munson
Laurie, Ideological morons can be convinced of anything, given enough time...
Yesterday at 7:31pm
Gary Munson
Gary Munson
Obama Bin Laden...
Yesterday at 7:31pm
Donna Epperson
Donna Epperson
Good one Gary!
Yesterday at 7:32pm
Gary Munson
Gary Munson
:).....
Yesterday at 7:34pm
Belinda Manning
Belinda Manning
RIGHT ON DONNA E. I feel the same way.
Yesterday at 7:36pm
Belinda Manning
Belinda Manning
@Jon C. Right on to you too Jon. Obama is out to destroy our country and I will always believe that about that non American. Many say im a fool but i don't care. I know what my gut is telling me and what his actions show me.
Yesterday at 7:42pm
Donna Epperson
Donna Epperson
Why does everyone think he is trying so hard to strong arm amnesty for illegals, because he is one of them.
Yesterday at 7:44pm
Carol Nichols
Carol Nichols
Please pray for our country and other countries also. The leaders need God in their lives to do whats right.
Yesterday at 8:09pm
Bruce J. Bennett
Bruce J. Bennett
Liberals thought I was an idiot when I said 'doesn't anyone seem alarmed about his middle name being 'Hussein'?'
Yesterday at 8:27pm
Donna Epperson
Donna Epperson
Aw! Bruce! Don't you know we can't cal him 'Hussein', or talk about his ears or talk about his 'name change'? Teee(smurking)
Yesterday at 8:31pm
Bruce J. Bennett
Bruce J. Bennett
No, but I like calling him Barry O. Y'know - like the mid-'70's crime drama with David Janssen...
Yesterday at 8:32pm
Donna Epperson
Donna Epperson
Yea, yea. I like calling him a bozo eared bafoon! LOL!
Yesterday at 8:33pm
John D Hall
John D Hall
My Congressman calls the Constitution "fixed in time. a guideline"
Yesterday at 8:45pm
Shelly Gabriel Rowe
Shelly Gabriel Rowe
we call him king barry the weak...
Yesterday at 8:46pm
John D Hall
John D Hall
Obama bin Lyin
Yesterday at 8:47pm
Donna Epperson
Donna Epperson
Man, that is sad. How can someone pledge to defend and uphold something they don't know anything about! Sad, sad
Yesterday at 8:48pm
Matt McKee
Matt McKee
Those were part of the communist party goals of 1963 right? They have had a great deal of success. They're patient and determined. Remember, the issue is not always the issue, the issue is always the revolution.
Yesterday at 8:53pm · 1 person
Donna Epperson
Donna Epperson
Right Matt! We can not lose focus on the truth!
Yesterday at 8:55pm
Gary Earp
Gary Earp
What he says and what he does have nothing to do with each other!
Yesterday at 8:58pm
Donna Epperson
Donna Epperson
Slight of Hand. Don't watch the left hand, watch the right while the left stabs you in the back!
Yesterday at 9:00pm
Matt McKee
Matt McKee
The purpose of a political argument is not to refute your opponent "but to wipe him from the face of the earth. -V.I. Lenin
Yesterday at 9:05pm
Donna Epperson
Donna Epperson
You go man, you go, we all must march forward together we will prevail!
Yesterday at 9:07pm
Older Posts



Republican political activist spurring on the birthers. What a mess.

WiredForStereo

Friends

I have like 184 Facebook friends.  I used to have 200, but I deleted some of them.

Who does that?

Me.

You see, I take the word "friend" very seriously.

Why?

Because I'm the kind of kid who prays that God will send someone to be my friend.  Only I didn't pray that as a kid, maybe I didn't think about it.  Maybe I did and don't remember, but in either case, I didn't have many friends.  I still don't have many people who I call friends.

I have acquaintances.  I have people I know.

But for some reason I hesitate to use the word friend.

Kids picked on me.  I was "the dirty kid."  I was poor, my clothes were stained, we didn't have a shower and you can't take a full bath every day when there's five people in the house.  And I went to a private school, which as you know is for kids who can afford to go to a private school.  So I was the dirty kid.

The playground was on two levels, they used to think it was fun to push me down the hill and keep me from getting up to the top, you know, where the equipment was, the swings, the merry-go-round, the monkey bars.

I had a "best friend" in first grade, his name was Jonathan Fox.  He had a lisp or an accent, I don't remember which.  But second grade came along, and he moved away.  Never had a best friend since.  No one my age, or in a similar place in the world.  I know one guy with similar political leanings as me, but he's an atheist.  It's hard to connect on a spiritual level with an atheist.  Great guy though, I couldn't say enough good things about him, he's a lot of fun to hang out with, but he's like eight years younger than me, going through totally different stuff.

I'm different.  I guess.

I'm a non traditional student at school, which means I'm old or married or live off campus.  I don't get dorm life.  I don't really have any engineer friends.  I don't do my homework with anyone.  It's kinda hard to get caught cheating if you always do your homework by yourself.

I like being alone.

A lot.

I don't like "worship music," it's boring.  All the church people like to "worship," with the "music" (acoustic guitar and vocals) but it's really boring.

I'm the sound guy at church.  I like doing that because I control the volume.

It's an interesting phenomenon that I have tested on many occasions, there's a certain threshold in volume where people will stand up and/or raise their hands.  It's around 93 decibels depending on the device used to measure.  It's fun to control people without them knowing it.  Somebody will be standing next to me in the sound booth and I'll say "hey, watch this" and I'll turn the volume up and people will stand up and raise their hands.

My recent Facebook escapade was kinda related to that.  I said it was an experiment.  It was.  It was kinda like practicing controlling people, though it's hard to get them to do stuff, it's really easy to get them to stay in a conversation, you just ratchet up the rhetoric.  Throw in a few key phrases.  Appeal to ego, or ideology.

On a relational level, I hate Facebook.  It makes miles and miles of relationships, but an inch deep.  I have met new friends on Facebook which is great.  People I will probably know for years and maybe even work with.  Anybody can snipe your stuff, and I know because I'm a Facebook sniper.  Or maybe a Facebook flasher.  I just wander around waiting to say something funny like "that's what she said" or maybe someday "bow chicka bow wow!"

I want to try "radical honesty."

That's when you say everything that's on your mind, never even veil the truth.  You cuss when you want to cuss.  Burp and fart out loud and not say excuse me if  you don't want to.  Tell people their baby is ugly if  you think it is.  The whole point is to say exactly what you mean at all times and always tell the truth.

But I can't.

I can be really really really mean.  I'm afraid I would have even fewer friends than I have now.  I'm afraid I'm too harsh on the inside for most people.  I'd probably die alone.

Now, it's my thing, properly filtered, that kind of thing makes people think you are open and honest, and sometimes even say that you don't have a filter.  But I do.  You don't even know what's going on in the inside.

And I'm angry.

So angry.

I have these dreams where people keep doing every thing that makes me mad.  It's like they're trying to do it.  And I just want to rip them limb from limb and I try, but I can't.  I can't reach them or they run away or they are incorporeal.  Some times it's people from my past, people who have done mean things to me.  Sometimes not.

I do want friends.  I want to be close to people, but I'm completely accustomed to not.

I kind of have this self image that I'm annoying.  I think I annoy people.  I don't know if I really do or not.  They still keep coming around, well not most of them, but I keep going around them, and they don't leave usually.

My hobbies are things people usually do alone.  I don't care for sports.  I keep bees, I play with model trains.  I try to annoy people on Facebook.

School is hard.

I mean it's not hard like lifting a car, I mean it's hard like getting up in the morning after sleeping for only one hour.  Some times I'll sit for hours berating myself because I won't start my homework.

Do I need depression medication?  Every late winter it's really hard.  Spring is here so it's better, but I get really depressed in February, every year.

But I really do want friends.  I want people who want to come over to my house even though it's small.  Do you know how often people come to visit uninvited?  Never.

Do you know how often they come invited?  Almost never.

I'm lonely.

WiredForstereo

The Great Facebook Experiment

A few months ago, I had grown tired of the environment Facebook was creating.  So I decided to have a little fun with it.  I decided to play the fool as it were, to play all the parts that people dislike the most on Facebook and to gauge people's reactions.  I called it a little "Social Experiment."  I could not however lower myself to the point where I actually posted song lyrics.  I just couldn't bring myself to do that.

So I did just that.  I made a nuisance of myself. 

I posted horribly mundane status updates.  I posted an update every few minutes for nearly an hour.  I got excessively political, starting fires in political threads, and who could resist with all the politically charged things that have happened lately.  I posted personal information.  I started my own fan club.  I made fun of Glenn Beck (got a great response there.)  I posted about bodily functions.  I posted links, videos, and pictures that had very little to do with me.  I carried on pointless arguments about things I don't really care about.  I picked fights with conservatives and libertarians.  I posted status updates which were descriptions of stereotypical status updates except that they contained no actual information.  I went so far as to impel someone to "unfriend" me.  I did all of this and more, and I made regular announcements about what I was doing, but I included the caveat that just in case someone took offense, it was actually directed toward them personally, which if you think about it, is completely ludicrous.

So, what did I learn?

I learned that many people are simply unable to control themselves when they see something that gets on their nerves.  Even though I made it clear that I was doing an experiment, there were still quite a few people who could not help but to take the bait.  Despite my repeated assertions that what I was saying was not serious, several people were simply unable to comprehend that there was no reason to debunk or politically correct what I was saying.  I found myself saying that there's no reason to agree to disagree or compromise or mature because the whole thing was an experiment.  And still people didn't seem to get it.  It seems to me that there is a distinct inability among a group of people today that is entirely unable to comprehend duplicity.  It seems to me, that is where guys like Limbaugh, Beck, and Hannity reside.  They take up residence in a cohort that cannot tell when they are lying, or simply are unable to suspect it.

On the other hand, there are many who can get it and love to play along.  These people are the most fun, because it challenges you to come up with ever more creative and provocative statements, posts, and links to try and draw them in, and sometimes you can succeed when they forget that you are yanking their chain.  Some are quite entertained by it.  On the other hand, there are those who start calling names and eventually unfriend you because they just don't get it.

I also had a flameout involving global climate deterioration as well.  One of the posts immediately below is in regards to that one.  I was having a friendly (or not) discussion about the subject (which I happen to be neutral on) and people were getting pretty heated.  Then my friend's mom comes on and posts that bunch of nonsense you see below.  This is the kind of thing that really tells me what I have ahead of me as a progressive follower of Jesus, but this wasn't the forum for it, so I ignored it.  Now that the experiment is over, I may have to actually go back to working on the things that are important to me, like the environment and conservation and things like that.

As I mentioned before, I posted a lot of posts close to one another several times.  I posted a lot of statuses, most of which were very funny if I do say so myself, and I linked my Facebook account to my Discus account so that whenever I left comments on a blog or website with Discus, they would also show up on my Facebook account.  I heard from several people that they thought about ignoring me, but didn't.

I suggested nudism to a few women that I know, didn't get many reactions to that.  And don't misunderstand, it was not in a crude way, I am a proponent of Christian Naturism, I just haven't had the opportunity to practice it myself.

But it was those older people who couldn't understand what I was doing that made me decide to end the project.  I left a status update similar to the Onion News Network story about being sorry that it wasn't Glenn Beck who had died tragically in some accident.  Nobody got it.  My mentor, my wife's grandfather, they were not happy at all.  They thought I was inciting violence.  My wife's grandfather pulled the old "I'm older, so that means I know better than you" argument which is about the first thing that will make me lose all respect for anyone. 

So I had to quit it.

It was kinda cool though that several people expressed the sentiment that they enjoyed watching what I was doing because it was entertaining.  These were most of the same ones who had played along earlier, and even at times added to the project.

My conclusion is that Americans need much more to be critical (the good kind) of everything, especially the things they hold most dear.  Never accept any information without a challenge to the ruler of truth.  Understand that people can and do lie regularly.  Everyone, especially those who claim to believe in truth or have the truth or want to tell  you something they say is the truth.  Like Jack Sparrow said, "it's the honest ones you have to worry about mate."  You just did the voice in your head didn't you, so did I.  Don't accept something as fair and balanced just because the one who told you said it was.  Doubt everything.  Doubt motives, doubt unproven or unprovable facts, doubt everything someone who is paid to have an opinion says. 

The truth is out there, but you have to go find it yourself, don't trust ANYONE to bring it to you, even me.
WiredForStereo

The Calvinist's Guide to Global Warming

I was having a Facebook flame out the other day in the comments section of a Status Update which said and I quote "IN YOUR FACE GLOBAL WARMING FREAKS" in response to a snow storm on the first day of spring.  Now I like to get into a few Facebook flameouts because as you know, Facebook is my b!tch and I like to bait people and see if I can get them to do stuff like what I'm about to write to you about.


So, the guy(who posted the status)'s mother comes on (and let me say, I like this family, and know them pretty well, but they are such staunch conservatives) and leaves the following tirade:


It's quite presumptuous to think that mere men can affect the Sovereign God's world to such a degree. God has CHOSEN to consider us eternally valuable--our significance is not innate. He will bring us down when we begin to talk like the Babel-onians :), whose pride caused them to set themselves up against an omnipotent, Creator God. Seems that the most serious impending danger lies in our moral depravity...not in our "poor stewardship" of the earth. What are your hearts like? Jesus spent His time exposing the true motives and conditions of His friends' hearts. So~with what are you filling your minds?...and eyes? and ears? What are you eating, drinking, or smoking? It is much easier to live from the outside, in, rather than from the inside, out.

God will destroy His earth, whenever He is ready. We're not that powerful.

Name-calling is inappropriate, weakens your case. Confirms the assertion than the liberal platform resorts to attacking the person, rather than stating the (known) facts.... See More

Environmentalism is a works-based righteousness religion. It borders on idolatry, gives us reasons to pat ourselves on the backs. Don't impose it on me.

American industry should behave responsibly, certainly. But China and India are some of the greatest offenders---yet the U.S. continues her martyr-like, self-punitive behaviors. (Beijing Summer Olympics 2008....and Ganges River)

Freedom>>prosperity>>jealous neighbors, who don't want our "freedom tactics" to leak out, or they'll lose power>>"U.S. is evil!!!" (= we hate them because they're prosperous)

I replied "with all due respect, that's your interpretation" because I didn't want to start a fight with her, because middle aged people in no way get what I'm doing on Facebook.  So I thought, for the benefit of those who may read this blog, that I'd explore the tirade and relate what's wrong with it, bibilcally, politically, factually, and spasmodically.

The first sentence is self defeating if you look at it long enough.  Why then is it not quite presumptuous to think that mere men can not affect the Sovereign God's world to such a degree?  Is it presumptuous to presume that I may be able to shoot someone against God's will?  And if God plans on burning the thing up anyway, (depending on your interpretation) why would we not be able to do our own fair bit to destroy it before then?  Simply saying that we are too small to make a difference does not make it so, there are nearing seven billion of us.  That's 13 people per square kilometer and 47 people per square kilometer of land or one person for every 21,277 square meters.  I don't know about you, but give me a few years, and I could tear up a 21,277 square meters if I wanted to.  That's only about five acres, I got two acres now!

And then the stuff about the Babylonians.  Am I to believe that by supporting initiatives against the destruction of the environment, I am going against God?  I believe the good book says that when God created this joint, he called it "very good." His plan of restoration is to fix what we have messed up.  The word often translated "dominion" in Genesis is better understood as borrowed or held in trust as in the parable of the talents in the new testament.

The name calling wasn't me, it was someone else.

Call environmentalism what you want, but it goes back to name calling.  And if environmentalism is a religion, so is anti-environmentalism.  And as far as imposition goes, don't impose your non caring attitude and politics on me.

If the US needs to be disciplined due to its actions, so be it.  You tell you children things like "just because everyone is doing it doesn't mean you should do it," but on a national scale, I guess the ideology changes. 

And finally, the last paragraph takes the cake.  The hubris and bigotry is self evident.  The world doesn't hate us because we are prosperous, they hate us because we keep BOMBING THEIR VILLAGES!!!  And we do it in Jesus name, at least in their eyes.

I'm not in favor of protecting the environment because of some self serving pseudo religious idolatrous fervor.  I protect the environment because what you do with a gift depends on what you believe about the giver.  I love the giver, why would I not cherish the gift?  But there's this idea that God has everything under his thumb, not simply under his control, but under his thumb, that he will cause and uncause things to happen and make things go his way.  This is ignorance on the highest level.  It is more than obvious that God is not running this show.  He works in smaller more intricate ways on individual levels.  But he always allows the morons of the world to do whatever they want for a time. 

Americans are an individualistic riotous revolutionary bunch.  This is what happens when a nation starts through a revolution.  It's like hiring a worship leader who initiated a church split at a previous church.  Understand it or not, we are all here in this joint together.  A more collective goal as a people is necessary.  If you want to be a rugged individualist, please move to Wyoming.

WiredForStereo

Welcome to The Transition Government

When you think of "transition government" you probably think about what the president-elect does between the time he's elected and the time he's inaugurated.  And that's where I got the idea, but there's a deeper meaning.

As you may have read in the past in the subtitle of this blog, it's about the garden coming back.  My beliefs about the world, the environment, politics, and everything are based in my faith in Jesus Christ.  And my goal as a disciple of the same is to return the earth and all that dwells upon it to the state in which it was created.  It was created as a perfect garden, and my goal is to bring the garden back.

So when I say "Transition Government" what I mean is not "government in transition" as you'll see on the news, but rather "transition to a new government," or original government as the case may be.  That is not to say however that I am advocating some sort of theocracy, and I'll tell you why.  When we have theocracies on earth, God (or whoever it is) is not ruling directly, rather fallible humans are interpreting the will of God and ruling however they please.  It's about making the world a better place for all who live in it.  That is of course juxtaposed to the way it is now where most of us are unhappy because of something.

Would I like to turn this in to a run for president someday?  Absolutely I would.  But if it doesn't happen, I'll still have done my best to make the world a better place.  If you read the blog regularly, you'll notice I do that with explorations on religion and the Christian faith, environmentalism, advocation for the disadvantaged, progressive politics, and by spreading the message of all of the above.

Know this:  I always have an agenda.  I always work toward my goals at all times, whether it be in my job, at school, on Facebook, among friends or at church.  I live what I believe, and I challenge others to do the same.  I incorporate as many people as possible (those that want to.)  And I hope that if you read this, you'll dedicate your life to affecting something on a large scale too.

So, I'm changing the name of the blog to "The Transition Government."  I've also started a Facebook group under the name "The Transition Government."  If you like my ideas, please consider joining the group and contributing (ideas, or money, whatever.)

WiredForStereo

The Disconnect

My wife and I delivered some coats and things to an event where poor and/or homeless people come to get coats and a meal in a local park. I happened to meet a person there who if you'll remember had gotten quite caustic with me on Facebook when I decried her gloating over killing the health bill. She had demanded that I list everything I had done to help the poor to make me prove that I was better than (or maybe as good as) her in doing such things. I flatly refused and she she tore me up, calling me a hypocrite and laying down insults in her status updates. Remember, this was because I wouldn't tell her, not because I had nothing to tell, just because I wouldn't. She insulted liberals, me, and even one of her friends who agreed with me that bragging about our works was not appropriate.

Of course I believe that the work she does with the poor is admirable, but I can't help but think about the disconnect that this demonstrates to me. And forget that I think she's a poor example of a Christian. It just seem strange to me to outwardly be so generous, but inwardly be so caustic. To give coats to poor people and yet vote for measures and representatives who will make more poor people.

Now I know of course that she will disagree and say that I am the one who is making more poor people, but tell me, who's favorite representatives are for free trade which allows us to ship the jobs to other countries?

I'm under no delusion about the ramifications of what I believe. If my goals were enacted, it would absolutely make some people poorer, the rich ones. I believe in progressive tax policy which readjusts the distribution of wealth to a greater proportion of the population. If I can provide health care to the poor on the backs of the rich, I'll do it. No man is an island. No man becomes a millionaire without someone else doing a bunch of the work.

But, my goals and beliefs are consistent. I advocate for a tax policy that distributes the wealth more evenly among the classes, and I also advocate for the disadvantaged. I don't help the poor and then actively advance policies that will swell their ranks.

It's not productive.
WiredForStereo

The Unfulfilled Life of a Blogger

Hello everyone, all five of you who read this blog regularly.

I don't know about you other bloggers, but this experience has left me a little bit frustrated. First of all, and not surprisingly, not that many people are interested in the same things I am. There are relatively few people out there who like composting toilets. There are some who like electric cars, but not many. There are plenty interested in politics, but few are both Christians and not conservatives.

To my dismay, the majority of hits on my blog are related to what is the most accurate Bible translation. Of course few people are looking for what is really the most accurate Bible translation, they just want to argue about it. The second most common subject is "The Shack" by Paul Young. This is not bad, I just wrote those posts years ago.

I have a confession to make. I got into a Facebook argument yesterday despite my previous abandonment of Facebook. It was mostly about the health care debate, but arguing with conservatives nearly always gets very messy. They don't play fair. They can be kind of mean. They make too many assumptions. One such assumption what that because I was for health care reform, that I was also pro abortion. So one guy went on this big fallacious post about how all I was doing was dancing across the skulls of dead babies. He reminded me very much of Sean Hannity who despite being disproven always keeps using the same arguments even when his facts are completely off. The same guy kept saying that I was part of the Emergent Church and a liberal which I am not. This serves to reinforce my belief in the exclusivity of the right. Either I'm one of them or I'm a bleeding heart liberal. Unfortunately I got in an argument with a person who could well be defined as a loudmouth. Arguments between loudmouths and knowitalls don't end well. I only hope she doesn't decide to pull a Sarah Palin and try to get me fired from my job (seriously.)

What I really want from this blogging experience is what I see on other blogs. There's a post, then comments with supporting and opposing views. There's some thoughtful discussion and some flaming too, but generally things go in some direction. But my position is just so unique. I'm a Christian, moderate, centrist, environmentalist, etc. etc. etc. But I get consistently labeled a liberal which bugs the crap out of me. I am always reminded that the right gets it wrong and the left doesn't get it. But people who get things wrong are much more virulent than the ones who don't get it. So it this point, it pretty much takes a super majority on any subject for liberals or progressives to get anything done. And though I'm not a liberal, years of republican filibustering and do nothing partisanship make me want to see the democrats get something done. They did win the election, they should get some results.

I just want people to be interested, is that too much to ask? They can like or hate it, but just somebody care! I'm kidding. No one said this would be easy. And yesterday was really hard. But oh well. I'll keep plugging on and no one caring. Maybe when I get to elected office my opponents can use this blog to claim I'm a flip flopper or a socialist or some other equally ludicrous nonsense.

Have fun.
WiredForStereo

Facebook and Twitter can Die and Rot.

Back before I signed up for Facebook, everyone was trying to get me on there. When I finally did, a guy I know said something like "you are finally drinking the Koolaid" or something like that, so I said "well, you've been a tool for months."

Let me tell you why I don't like Facebook or Twitter.

First, though this kind of service seems to increase the volume of interpersonal communication, and connection, it really superficializes what interpersonal communication is. There is so much more to communication than words. Most important are facial expressions. You can tell so much about a person by their facial expressions innately as a function of your natural coding as a human. Non-verbal communication is huge and when you just type, you lose it. Another thing is the voice. Your voice communicates so many things, and not the words, the tone, inflection, timbre, and numerous other characteristics. Something people often forget is hormones and pheromones that are released when we communicate. You may know that oxytocin is released when you hug or touch someone. But there are other hormones that are released into your body when you communicate and you lose those with a Tweet. Smell is a huge factor because your body releases smells and pheromones depending on your mood, attitude and stress level. Also, smells are the sense most tied to memory.

Another reason is the seemingly voluntary loss of privacy. Facebook statuses and tweets tell people what you want them to know is going on. And there is this expectation for you to tell more and more. I also think there can be a draw to be untruthful with them to make them sound more interesting. And I'm tired of people using Facebook instead of email or IM. So now you send me a Facebook message, and Facebook sends me an email so that now I have to go to Facebook and sign in to reply to the message because I can't simply reply to the email. Email me dammit! I've got an iPhone, I get it right away. Stupid Facebook app, told me I had a message for weeks, but I couldn't find it, finally pressed "refresh" and there it was. Then I got updates when Robbie was sick. Everytime there was an update, I got five different updates, two from Facebook groups and two from everywhere else.

There needs to be some privacy, at least for me. There's a reason why I moved out into the country. It was to be away from people who could see what I was doing in my own back yard. But the thing is, if you want to see what I'm doing in my back yard, just come over and ask. I don't know how many people who know me realize, but I'm here all day long and I'll talk to ya. I have a cell phone, and if you call me, I'll talk to ya. If you want to come over and see what the inside of a bee hive looks like, I'll show ya. If you want to fart around in the garden, please do. You can't do any of that stuff on Facebook. Also, you can't get a computer virus in the garden either.

Finally, like with email, it's just too easy for there to be a misunderstanding, but unlike email, it's just too public. When you leave a comment on someone's status or on their wall, everyone sees it and is free to comment on it. And it is just too easy for something to be misunderstood which can cause divides between people.

So I'm done with Facebook, and I never got started with Twitter. If you want to get ahold of me, email or call, or do the unthinkable and write a letter. Drop by my house, there's a pretty good chance I'm here. I'll keep my Facebook account in case anyone wants to contact me for high school reunions or something, but I'm not going to actively take part. And I'm going to stay away from Twitter, because as you can see, I don't do micro-blogging.

WiredForStereo